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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 21, 2006 7:16:05 GMT -5
My only experience with a sissy is fighting against them and in truth they give my Ropists fits. What is a good starting build for a sissy and what are your options in terms of fighting styles? Most that I have seen use outside, ring, or feint.
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Post by wolfscorner on Nov 21, 2006 9:15:27 GMT -5
Thanks for starting the thread.
Here is a super lightweight example. This one comes from the scand fight club.
Strength 2 Knockout Punch 0 Speed 15 Agility 14 Chin 10 Conditioning 15 Cut Resistance Low Height 6 feet 1 inch (185 centimeters) Build very light Weight 141 pounds (63 kilograms) Minimum Weight 135 pounds (61 kilograms)
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Post by wolfscorner on Nov 21, 2006 9:22:30 GMT -5
As far as styles, all of the fight plan examples i have found so far only use ring, outside or feint. I found a sissy v slugger fight plan that uses outside. A sissy v clincher that uses ring and a sissy v sissy that uses feint.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 21, 2006 10:56:58 GMT -5
Have I mentioned I hate sissies? Chuckle.
Usually when matched up with them I try and outslap them for two rounds and then take a round off. I use Ring for the Agility advantage although looking at your Sissy build, which you said came from Scand, I could probably use Ropes as well. But thatis another discussion.
Sissies are hard to wear down so you have a hard time winning the endurance war with them. Fight planning for a sissy should not be too difficult, I imagine it is based on score and increases your aggression if you lose rounds.
I have no idea who the good sissy managers are so I cannot guide you towards someone you can study and pattern yourself off of.
I will say that you may run into problems in Rookies with sissies because Rookies is slam full of clinchers. High strength fighters are probably going to all-out you once they realize that you are a sissy. I recommend taking a few rounds and at least increasing your power, if not every round you punch count will read something like this
35 of 70 punches, 1 power punch, 33 jabs, 1 right hand
Which clearly shows sissy. If you throw a higher power in there the power punches and right hands may go to 4 or 5. After a few fights though with you throwing power punches and not getting knockouts it will be obvious still, that you are running a sissy.
Many managers will all out the sissy immediately in Round One, be prepared for that and look to run a higher defense if that happens, use Ring if you need defense because it increases your Agility, it also gives you an endurance penalty but you should be fine with a conditioning like you have.
Sardonic could answer this better but I swear I think a 15 starting conditioning is too high, with Random AP's even if you do not train conditioning you could probably still have an 18 or so conditioning at 28/28, or 18/18 in rookies.
Any thoughts Sardonic?
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Post by jimsardonic on Nov 21, 2006 17:44:31 GMT -5
Actually, 15 CON is pretty much perfect... for the reasons that you stated.
Sissies take a _massive_ beating, week in and week out. They need the AGL and CON to survive.
The problem with sissies is that they're one-dimensional fighters. Given the _very_ low STR, they aren't going to do much damage, even if they go 6B/12!/2 all fight. They just aren't built for doing any damage.
Then what are they built for? Scoring, and surviving.
The build I would use at Superlight is a bit different than Wolfscorner's:
STR: 3 KP: 1 SPD: 14 AGL: 14 CHN: 9 CON: 15 HGT: 13 BLD: vlight cuts: (always) 1
the 1 KP helps a lot with body allouting. You can throw in lines to know when the opponent is going nuts, and be prepared for it with a 4H/8/8 (ring/counter).
If the opp has no KP, and you're getting stunned -- thats an indication that he's doing a LOT of damage to you. So,
if mystuns > 0 then 4H/8/8 (counter)
Likewise, if you're taking a LOT of damage per round, though, not enough to stun you -- you're probably looking at either a 4B/8/8 (allout) or something more like a 5B/10/5 (inside). For that:
if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 7 then 4H/9/7 (counter)
You'll want to be sure to use rest lines, with sissies. Remember that you're built for scoring, and little else. You shouldn't bother using lines like:
1) 4B/8/8
Never target body as a sissy. Just go opportunistic, or target head if you've got the KP and think the opponent is opening up too much.
As for styles to use -- (outside) and (counter) should do it in most matchups. Unless you're facing another sissy, you should _always_ be quite a bit taller than the opp. As long as they're not ridiculously fast, you should have the SPD advantage. (ring) and (feint) can also be used situationally, but usually you want to use a style that will boost your AGL -- so you're taking less damage. (counter) I would use only for flashing, as it will often give a minimal AGL boost -- but will drop the opp's AGL some, making it easier to throw the KO Punch -- especially if he's allouting.
Dirty Deeds from UV is excellent with Sissies, I'll give him a holler and see if he won't have anything more to add here for you guys.
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Post by DegenerationX on Nov 21, 2006 18:20:54 GMT -5
Sissys usually get ate alive in contenders. Destroying sissys is alot of fun, so with that in mind, Jim is right on the 1 KP for defensive purposes.
I myself can't run a successful sissy to save I disagree, but in the hands of a talented manager, they can be very tough to beat.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 21, 2006 20:46:11 GMT -5
Well, Sardonic, I was wrong on the conditioning but you didn't correct the rest of my advice so I must be figuring out something heh. I have had to go inside on some sissies with my Ropists but my guys are not usually strong enough to damage them enough to wear them down.
To me it doesn't seem like a Sissy is viable for too long, they are too easy to scout and if you are in a region heavy with Flashers / Clinchers / Sluggers I would have to imagine a sissies career would be real short. If you have no strength to back off the fighters who really deal IP's they are just going to maul you.
The appeal towards sissies, especially when you are new, is that they are easy to plan for and they seem like they should win, just slap and stay away.
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Post by jimsardonic on Nov 21, 2006 21:04:55 GMT -5
With ropists vs Sissies, I often do stuff like:
1) 6B/10/4 (inside) 2) if score > 1 then 5B/11/4 (inside) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and mystuns = 0 and score > 0 then 5B/10/5 (allout)
...and line up a late round KO. Check for KP, if there's none, don't be afraid to 5H/10/5 (allout). Otherwise, usually a 6H/11/3 (inside) or such will do.
Keep AGG and POW up, as they wear down, they'll have a harder time scoring against you.
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Post by readytobang on Nov 21, 2006 23:34:13 GMT -5
I don't think I have a lot of fights with sissies actually but I've got a fight coming up with a guy that has all decission wins and has never stunned an opponent so I am likely fighting one now lol
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Post by seeingstars on Nov 22, 2006 1:30:45 GMT -5
Ohhh...someone brought up my style of fighter. This weekend I will give you an idea how to run a sissy. most people who run sissies just make their plans after score,roundslost and the occasional stun. I tell you, they are not endurance fighters, yet knowing the endurance games helps out alot, especially since you want to get the idea of how much damage you are taking. I just retired (temporarily) from webl extreme and all i ran were kp sissies and i will come back with freak sissies. the advice that you have seen so far is sound, yet i run my sissies a little differently and i have seen great success in my region.
Now, for a build, I don't quite agree with the scan fight club abt the build, as i would give the sissy less speed because he will get enough spd bonus from his height. Not writing a plan down here, but i would measure my punch output depending on how hard he is hitting me and what type of fighter he is. I dont' scout because i am sooooo lazy, i let my plans do that for me, but u should scout and get good at it. as far as styles, it depends. i've used allout with success (but the terms have to be right) but for the most part, yes, outside, ring counter and feint if you are fighting another sissy. Sissies are one dimensional, yes, but many managers underestimate just how hard it can be to beat a sissy, especially if the build and the plan put in place are sound.
Pretty tired, so i will give you a sample plan to work on if you would like. Not saying i am the authority on it, but if you put a post in q&a asking for a good sissy manager my name would problaby come out
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Post by seeingstars on Nov 22, 2006 1:34:00 GMT -5
Actually this post gave me an idea, i should do a lesson on beginning, intermediate and advanced use of a sissy. hmmmm.....:-)
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Post by seeingstars on Nov 22, 2006 1:37:55 GMT -5
BUT, I WOULD not use a sissy in contenders unless it was a heavyweight, they get killed in contenders.
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pnp
Regional Fighter
Posts: 73
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Post by pnp on Nov 22, 2006 1:43:34 GMT -5
Sounds like you like sissys with some KP.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 22, 2006 7:09:02 GMT -5
I fully understand how hard it is to beat a sissy as they have been giving me fits of late. I sometimes will try and outslap them, especially if the have no KP. Get ahead by a few rounds and then rest. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I suppose I could be a not a very nice person and go with some 6C/12!/2 (inside) and forget about winning, just try and give them as many IP's as possible. I have not tried to allout a sissy yet because I am worried about getting knocked out as my Ropists run low chins.
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Post by Dirty Deeds on Nov 23, 2006 22:15:13 GMT -5
Sorry I am a little late here. Some great advice here. I have been very successful with Sissies and while many have nothing but bad to say about them, I can guess that it's because they are hard to beat.
I saw here that someone recommended 2-3 STR and maybe a point of KP. I start with 1 STR and 0 KP. I try to evolve them into counterists or even ropists as I go but every extra point you have should go to either speed or especially agility in the beginning. The more agl you have, the less damage you take, the less IP's so on and so on. Speed is important too as you will win by score only. But it doesn't take too much. I start with 15-20. To me, KP is not for a sissy. I have heard about KP sissies but to me it's wasted AP's.
I saw another post about going allout against a sissie. It won't work against a good sissy manager though. While they are very one dimensional there is still some skill in keeping AP's down, especially against clincher!
If you decide to run one, and I highly suggest you do if you are new to the game, you will lower your aggression the more damage you take using conditionals. You also would want to only use enough speed to take a round. For example, 10/1/9 (outside) against a clincher in the first rounds is a big no no. 5/1/14 (outside) will take the round easily and keep the damage to a minimum.
Ring is not a normal style for a sissie because you will get just as much agl boost with outside plus you get a speed bonus. Only use feint when you fight another sissie or a fast dancer type.
If someone allouts to the head and gets a stun, just cover a couple rounds. More than likely his stun conditionals will kick in and he will go heavy to the head for a round or two. It will be easy to make up the score later.
Lastly, run as soon as you win 7 rounds. 1/1/18 (outside) is the way to go there.
They are fun and I can get high regionals with them frequently although I do add STR after about 8/8. Most all my regional title fighters are fighters that started as sissies.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 24, 2006 4:12:45 GMT -5
There were a few things in your post that stood out to me that I had not thought of before this... while many have nothing but bad to say about them, I can guess that it's because they are hard to beat. That is my reasoning for it, I confess heh. That gives me some insight as to why my Ropists have a hard time with sissies.
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Post by jimsardonic on Nov 24, 2006 22:19:10 GMT -5
So how do you go about beating a sissy? I tried several options but of late I have actually been outslapping them. That has worked thus far but surely someone will catch onto it sooner or later and I will have to change my plan. I have tried various other options, hard body lines, heavy head power lines....I am skeptical about all-outing them though.
(inside) and lines like:
1)6B/10/4 (inside) if score < 1 then 8B/8/4 (inside) if score < 0 then 8/8/4 (inside)
If you can pinpoint no KP, you can often get away with a few body allout rounds, lines like:
5B/10/5 (allout), 5B/11/4 (allout), 6B/11/3 (allout), and the like.
Finally, and this is a little risky, but you could try getting him to open up -- win a few rounds with lines like 12/1/7 (feint) and the like... and then start doing the damage. If you can drop the DEF enough, you could possibly even land a KO on 6H/11!/3 (allout).
Is outslapping a sissy a viable long term option?
Nope. Think of all the points they have in SPD and AGL, if they're not in STR. Also, there's a bonus of SPD and AGL if you're taller than your opponent -- you get .5 SPD and .5 AGL for each inch taller you are.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 25, 2006 3:35:36 GMT -5
I never thought about baiting them to open up. I suppose if I slap a few rounds and force their aggression up I can hammer them hard with big inside lines.
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Post by jimsardonic on Nov 25, 2006 10:49:54 GMT -5
or allout
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Post by wolfscorner on Nov 26, 2006 13:07:07 GMT -5
so i should use if roundswon >= 7 then 1/1/18 (outside)
i have also seen if score > 15 - round then 1/1/18 (outside) and if score > 14 - round then 1/1/18 (outside)
which one is better?
I guess i need to use endurance conditionals for damage? i really dont understand these. that is probably the reason i decided to use sissies. i thought i would only need score conditionals.
thanks again for your help
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