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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 5, 2006 1:22:07 GMT -5
I am trying to start a few threads that will be of the most use for new managers.
First, it should be required that you read AoP's Fight Planning Guide. But I would be curious to know from some of the other managers what elements of a fight plan do they find to be essential.
1. I have seen plans where static lines were given for every round, and I have seen others where they were spaced out. I typically go with something like
1) X/X/X 2) X/X/X 5) X/X/X 8) X/X/X 11) X/X/X 12) X/X/X
But I have seen plans where managers put static lines in for each round and then follow it, of course, with various conditionals.
2. Can you actually make a decent fight plan with the Basic editor? I had several friends who started in WEBL and used the basic creator almost exclusively.
3. Do you put in a cut conditional for your opponent? I used too but of late I have removed the cut conditional.
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Post by jimsardonic on Nov 5, 2006 1:47:12 GMT -5
But I have seen plans where managers put static lines in for each round and then follow it, of course, with various conditionals. There are plenty of different types of fight plan skeleton -- it really is manager preference. I see a lot of people using endurance and score conditionals, such as: 1) 4B/8/8 (ring) 2) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score > 0 then ... if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score <= 0 then ... if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score > 0 then... if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score <= 0 then... They often include blocks to check on their opponent below it, like: if endurance_percent < 100 - (round - 1) * x and score > 0 and opp = 1 then... and so on. There's no right or wrong way, it's a matter of seeing what you like best. 2. Can you actually make a decent fight plan with the Basic editor? I had several friends who started in WEBL and used the basic creator almost exclusively. I suppose you could, though, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want more control than it allows. Realistically, thought, some managers write fp's with less lines than even it has. 3. Do you put in a cut conditional for your opponent? I used too but of late I have removed the cut conditional. For the most part, it's not worth it in the early stages of a fighter's career. He has a better chance of being cut if he's had a lot of fights, but it's always a bit of a gamble. In early regionals or rookies, I'd probably not bother with them. I've heard managers that proclaimed getting many more wins due to having cut conditionals in -- but I'd think that other than in contenders -- they're not going to trigger often enough to be worth it. Even if they do trigger, they're just going to steer your fp off track on a gamble of winning on cuts.
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usagi
Rookie Fighter
Posts: 6
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Post by usagi on Nov 5, 2006 10:14:35 GMT -5
Mangers tend to learn how to write plans in different ways. Some pick up plans from other gyms; some are nerds and play in the sim for ages. I finally "got" how to write plans after writing a plan that took up 6 pages in a WORD document. This is an extremely silly fight plan, but I could see every line. I could go back to the fight results and see exactly what worked and why it worked, and just the opposite in the case of losing. It was tough to write, but easy to understand.
1) The basic fight plan creator is fine. After getting an understanding on how plan writing works, it's feasible to compete with 10-15 line plans. Most of my slugger plans are about 15 lines (more is I am facing another slugger because I want to check endurance).
When I write a plan (there many things to think about before writing) I use three set line. This is the least ammount of commands to win fight.
example round 1) 4B/8/8 round 5 or 6) 5/8/7 round 11 or 12) 5H/9/6
Anything I write in between those lines are conditionals; meaning what am I willing to do to react to my opponent. You don't need 800 lines of what ifs. The goal it to make your opponent go outside of their comfort zone. Let them fight your fight. Fight plans are personal. They make up you WeBL personality. What works for one gym, may not work for another gym.
Cuts was changed a while back, if strength is your primary stat, I would suggest adding a cuts conditional if you can see in your opponent's history that he cuts easily (before round 4). (example if hisscuts > 3 and score > -2 then 5C/9/6 -- if hisscuts > 5 then 5C/10/5) Remember, it's a conditional. You don't to spend your whole fight aiming for cuts but if you can aggravate cuts well enough, your opponent's stats drop or you may even win the fight. I have also switched my cuts stat on my newer fighters from 1 to 2.
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pnp
Regional Fighter
Posts: 73
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Post by pnp on Nov 5, 2006 11:31:58 GMT -5
I have only written a few fightplans so far, none of which will probably lead to many titles, but I find that it's helpful to go in with a general plan.
1) How do I expect to win this fight (points, KO, etc...)? Some fighters change their approach every couple rounds and never accomplish anything. I look at each four round block (early, middle, late) and try to use it to accomplish my goal.
2) How do I expect my opponent to win this fight?
3 If I lose, why didn't my plan work. (Was I off on the scouting?, Did I forgot to factor in something in my fightplan,etc...)
It's still a work in progress but I found that with some general rules in place it gives me some structure and direction.
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Post by italiano on Nov 6, 2006 0:08:16 GMT -5
I have only written a few fightplans so far, none of which will probably lead to many titles, but I find that it's helpful to go in with a general plan. 1) How do I expect to win this fight (points, KO, etc...)? Some fighters change their approach every couple rounds and never accomplish anything. I look at each four round block (early, middle, late) and try to use it to accomplish my goal. 2) How do I expect my opponent to win this fight? 3 If I lose, why didn't my plan work. (Was I off on the scouting?, Did I forgot to factor in something in my fightplan,etc...) It's still a work in progress but I found that with some general rules in place it gives me some structure and direction. That's a very good rule of thumb to start your fight plans from. It took me actually until August or September, to successfully write my own fight plans from scratch and understand all the conditionals. But now after practicing and experiencing it, it is very easy to do now, and like Usagi said, I don't need 800 lines to do so. One fight plan can't and won't win every fight anyway. But I feel that you should try to have a good (sufficient) "endurance" and "slapping" fp. Because those are really the only 2 ways to fight in WeBL, you either slap w/conditionals or you use the endurance game w/conditionals.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 6, 2006 0:08:23 GMT -5
Heh, Usagi, when I first started, my fight plans actually were only conditionals. Madness now that I reflect upon it. I agree with you PnP that you have to have a general idea of how you plan to win the fight.
Do you guys use basic templates or do you write a new plan each time? I have a basic template and about 10 pre-written plans for each fighter type that I modify depending on individual opponents.
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Post by italiano on Nov 6, 2006 0:20:37 GMT -5
Do you guys use basic templates or do you write a new plan each time? I used to use the fight plans that were already in the gym from the beginning. After I learned to build them from scratch, I used those plans and tweaked them into my own personal plans and now I probably have over 150 FP's. I used to make a new FP everytime I got scheduled a fight. It was time consuming, but I wanted to be successful. I now only use about 10-15 of those 150. I have a basic template and about 10 pre-written plans for each fighter type that I modify depending on individual opponents. That should do well
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pnp
Regional Fighter
Posts: 73
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Post by pnp on Nov 6, 2006 2:24:40 GMT -5
Wow! I'm impressed. Right now I have a few original plans along with some premade ones that I use or edit. I think the biggest problem for me is choosing where and what conditionals to use. It can seem overwhelming at times.
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Post by Evolve <Evil Empire> on Nov 6, 2006 5:06:36 GMT -5
Indeed, conditionals can make you go nuts.
This is what I am using for a fight I have coming up, the guy always slaps the first two rounds and then goes hard using counter or feint. I tried to do some damage early and then backed off and upped my defense trying to score and win a few on points. Later in the fight, when his endurance is low (he wins mostly by middle knockout) I tried to put more power in. This plan came from a few places, the base part was done by Krystal's Method and posted in a thread that I made on the WEBL, the knockout conditionals were written by someone on the South forums, I cannot remember who or I would give him credit.
1) 4B/6/10 (ropes) 2) 4B/6/10 (ropes) 2) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 5 and score <= -1 then 3B/4!/13 (ring) 2) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 4 and score <= -1 then 4B/4!/12 (ring) 2) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score <= -1 then 4B/5/11 (ropes) 2) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 2 and score <= -1 then 4B/5/11 (ropes) if score > 2 then 4B/5!/11 (ropes) 5) 7B/2/11 (ring) 5) if score <= -1 then 8B/1/11 (ring) 5) if score <= -1 and hiscuts >= 3 then 8C/2/10 (ring) 5) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 5 and score <= -1 then 7B/2/11 (ring) 5) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 4 and score <= -1 then 8B/1/11 (ring) 5) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score <= -1 then 9B/1/10 (ring) 5) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 2 and score <= -1 then 10B/1/9 (ring) 8) 8/2/10 (ring) 8) if score <= -1 then 10/1/9 (ring) 8) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 5 and score <= -1 then 7/3/10 (ring) 8) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 4 and score <= -1 then 8/2/10 (ring) 8) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 3 and score <= -1 then 9/1/10 (ring) 8) if endurance_percent > 100 - (round - 1) * 2 and score <= -1 then 10/1/9 (ring) 8) if score > 2 then 4H/4/12 (ropes) 11) 4H/9/7 (ropes) if score <= -1 then 5H/11/4 (ring) if score <= -1 and hiscuts > 3 then 5C/9/6 (ring) 12) 4H/4/12 (ropes) 12) if score <= -1 then 5H/12!/3 (ropes) 1) if (opp = 0 and end > 0) or (opponent <= exhausted and endurance_percent > 66) then 9H/9/2 (ropes)
#Judges order 1) if round = 7 and endurance_percent < 77 then 1H/1/8 (ring) 1) if (opp = weak and end > 1) or (opponent <= weak and endurance >= tired) then 7B/8/5 (ropes)
2) if (opp = 0) and (score < round - 11) then 6H/11/3 (ring) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 50 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 4H/8/8 (allout) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 60 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 4H/9/7 (allout) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 70 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 5H/9/6 (allout) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 80 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 5H/10/5 (allout) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 90 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 5H/11/4 (allout) if (opp = 0) and (endurance_percent >= 100 + (mystuns * 10) - (hisstuns * 5)) and (score < round - 11) then 6H/11/3 (allout)
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usagi
Rookie Fighter
Posts: 6
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Post by usagi on Nov 7, 2006 10:26:50 GMT -5
Modifying templates is OK, but a smart manager will see that you are modifying your templates and will beat you. I can guarantee that the upper Contender managers write plans for every fight. That's why you should keep them fairly short and throw in a surprise or two. I'll set a conditional almost in any fight to try to stun. It's a conditional so it doesn't always kick in. If you have too many conditionals, you may never get to fight your fight. PNP nailed the technique. Lastly, keep it short and keep it simple and always review your fight, even if you win.
I have a kind of template for a sluggers (endurance and stuns) and one for dancers (score and stuns). But essentially I write each plan for each fight.
By the way, I ran 85 fighters with two different plans and won 50+ RTs. Also, search for the fighter The Prettiest Star. That was Peekaboo. He didn't change his plan once and won a WT.
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usagi
Rookie Fighter
Posts: 6
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Post by usagi on Nov 7, 2006 10:33:45 GMT -5
A long time ago, I was able to get a hold of about 10 Peekaboo fight plans. A couple of them still work but they were written for a different kind of fighter with a different kind of sim. But, it was great to look at them and create a new writing style based on them.
4B/6/10 (counter); if score < round - 1 then 5B/6/9 (counter); if score < round - 3 then 5B/7/8 (counter); if score < round - 1 and mystuns > 0 then 4B/5/11 (counter); if score < round - 1 and mystuns > 1 then 3B/5/12 (counter); if score < round - 1 and hisstuns > 0 then 4H/7/9 (counter); if score < round - 1 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 75 then 5B/8/7 (counter); if score < round - 1 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 70 and hisstuns > 0 then 5H/8/7 (counter);
if score < round - 7 then 5/7/8 (counter); if score < round - 7 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 75 then 6/8/6 (counter); if score < round - 7 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 70 and hisstuns > 0 then 6H/8/6 (counter); if score < round - 7 and mystuns > 0 then 5/5/10 (counter); if score < round - 9 then 6/6/8 (counter); if score < round - 9 and endurance_percent < 66 and opp = strong then 5/6/9 (counter); if score < round - 9 and mystuns < 1 and endurance_percent > 60 and opp < strong then 6/7/7 (counter); if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 0 then 6/5/9 (counter); if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 1 then 6/4/10 (counter);
if (13 - round + score) > 0 and (13 - round + score) < 3 and mystuns = 0 and endurance_percent > 66 then 7/6/7 (counter); if score - (13 - round) > 1 and endurance_percent < 68 and opp = strong then 4H/5/11 (counter); if score - (13 - round) > 1 and mystuns > 0 then 1/1/18 (ring); if score - (13 - round) > 1 and mycuts > 4 then 3H/5/12 (counter); if decision_won = true then 3H/6/11 (counter); if decision_won = true and mystuns - hisstuns > 0 then 1/1/18 (ring); if decision_won = true and endurance_percent < 66 and opp = strong then 1/1/18 (ring); if decision_won = true and hisstuns - mystuns > 0 and endurance_percent > 66 then 3H/9/8 (counter); if decision_won = true and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 75 then 3H/9/8 (counter); if decision_lost = true then 3H/7/10 (counter); if decision_lost = true and endurance_percent > 75 then 4H/8/8 (counter); if decision_lost = true and hisstuns - mystuns > 0 then 4H/9/7 (counter); if decision_lost = true and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 75 then 4H/10/6 (counter);
Stop
Yes, no static lines.
1) 5/7/8 (ring); 1) if mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 77 then 5/9/6 (ring); 2) if mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 2) if score < round - 1 then 6/7/7 (ring); 2) if mystuns = 0 and score < round - 1 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 2) if score < round - 1 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 2) if score < round - 5 then 6/8/6 (ring); 2) if score < round - 5 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 5) if score < round - 7 then 7/8/5 (ring); 2) if score < round - 5 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 2) if score < round - 7 and mystuns > 0 and mystuns < 3 then 6/6/8 (ring); 6) 5H/8/7 (clinch); 7) 5B/7/8 (clinch); 7) if hisstuns > 0 then 5H/8/7 (clinch); 6) if mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 77 then 5/9/6 (ring); 6) if mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 6) if score < round - 5 then 6/7/7 (ring); 6) if mystuns = 0 and score < round - 1 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 6) if score < round - 5 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 6) if score < round - 7 then 6/8/6 (ring); 6) if score < round - 7 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 6) if score < round - 9 then 7/8/5 (ring); 6) if score < round - 7 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 6) if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 0 and mystuns < 3 then 6/6/8 (ring); 8) if endurance_percent < 80 then 2/1/8 (clinch); 9) 5/8/7 (ring); 9) if mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 77 then 5/9/6 (ring); 9) if mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 9) if score < round - 5 then 6/7/7 (ring); 9) if score < round - 5 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 9) if score < round - 5 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 9) if score < round - 9 then 6/8/6 (ring); 9) if score < round - 9 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 9) if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 0 then 5/7/8 (ring); 9) if score < round - 10 then 7/8/5 (ring); 9) if score < round - 10 and mystuns > 0 then 6/6/8 (ring); 10) if score > 1 and endurance_percent < 75 then 2/1/8 (clinch); 11) 5H/7/8 (ring); 11) if mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 77 then 5H/9/6 (ring); 11) if mystuns > 0 then 5H/6/9 (ring); 11) if score < round - 7 then 6/7/7 (ring); 11) if score < round - 7 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 11) if score < round - 7 and mystuns > 0 then 5/6/9 (ring); 11) if score < round - 9 then 6/8/6 (ring); 11) if score < round - 9 and mystuns = 0 and opp < strong and endurance_percent > 80 then 6/9/5 (ring); 11) if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 0 then 6/5/9 (ring); 11) if score < round - 9 and mystuns > 0 and mystuns < 3 then 6/6/8 (ring); 11) if score > 2 then 5H/7/8 (ring); 10) if score < 0 and mystuns = 0 and endurance_percent > 66 then 7/8/5 (ring); 11) if score < 1 and mystuns = 0 and endurance_percent > 60 then 7/8/5 (ring); 12) if score < 2 and mystuns = 0 and endurance_percent > 60 then 7/8/5 (ring); 11) if hisstuns > 2 and score > 0 and endurance_percent > 66 then 5H/8/7; 11) if (13 - round + score) < 0 and endurance_percent > 50 then 5H/10/5 (inside);
stop
Once again, these plans aren't nearly as effective as they were a while back and were essentially written for specific fights but they are fun to look at and modify.
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Post by Evolve3 on Nov 7, 2006 20:06:10 GMT -5
I have heard of Peekaboo a few times. The fact that he did not change his fight plans and won a title is insane. I have been just modifying templates for higher ranking fights but I am still in Rookies, I agree once I move out of Rookies I will be facing tougher competition and I see your point about mixing your fight plans. I have not actually written one from scratch yet so I suppose I should get to work on that.
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